In June 1996 Nan
and I visited England and Ireland as part of an overseas holiday.
We went to see John O'Carroll in Hove and he gave us a copy of
Sotherby's advertisment for the sale of Emmel Castle that once
belonged to the family. When we were in Ireland we went to see it.
We also went to see Brian O'Carroll in Redruth and he gave us copies of letters sent on 26 December 1882 and 16 May 1893 by Robt. W. Carroll of Cincinnati to J. H. Carroll of Cork. They refer to a number of relatives living in America. [Originals held by David O'Carroll, Leeds, UK (now in Gower, Wales - 2009]
These notes were made from the items mentioned, from books I was able to borrow from libraries in Johannesburg, or see in the Reference Libraries in Johannesburg and Durban. Some of the information was acquired from people I have spoken or written to. In particular David O'Carroll, in Leeds, who is my first cousin once removed and is very interested in family genealogy, sent copies of some of the old correspondence and very useful information on the family. Charles Carroll III, of Baltimore, kindly provided information on his family and copies of some pages from a book about Charles Carroll of Carrollton going back as far as the father of Charles Carroll (1660-1720).
By the fourth century there were five leading Gaelic kingdoms in Ireland. They roughly correspond to the provinces of Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Connaught and the counties of Meath and Westmeath. Munster was the Eoganachta kingdom; Ulster the O'Niells; Leinster was ruled by the MacMurroghs; Connaught by the O'Connors; and Meath by the southern O'Niell family. There were about a hundred and fifty lesser kingdoms grouped in allegiance beneath them. From time to time the number of kingdoms changed with the fluctuating fortunes of the leading clans. In the ninth century two High Kingdoms dominated Ireland. In the north the O'Niells ruled from Tara, while in the south the Eoganachta ruled from Cashel. These two great Irish families struggled for the High Kingship of all Ireland. They fought each other in the battle of Ballaghmoon in 908 and the Eoganachta were defeated. Their priest-king Cormac was killed and the power of the Eoganacht never recovered. In 977 King Olaf of the Sandals defeated Domnall the O'Niell High King and extended the Viking kingdom of Dublin to the Shannon. By the end of the tenth century the Vikings in Ireland had accepted Christianity and Brian Boru had become the High King of Munster and the southern half of Ireland. Brian Boru, who is considered one of the greatest Irishmen who ever lived, regained Cashel, which once again became the seat of the kings of Munster. In 999 he completely defeated the Danes of Dublin and entered the city in triumph. In 1002 he was acknowledged the first absolute High King of all Ireland, finally ending the domination of the O'Niells. The Danes proved reluctant vassals and plotted a rebellion against Brian's rule. The two armies met in Dublin near Clontarf on Good Friday 23 April 1014. Eventually the Danes were driven back to the beach at Clontarf, where hundreds of them drowned, in an exceptionally high tide, before they could reach the safety of their ships.
[The Oxford Guide to Family History - David Hey - 1993]
[The Oxford Guide to Family History - David Hey - 1993] 15 September 1997
In 1607 the Earls of Tyrone and Tyrconnell and nearly one hundred chiefs of the north left Ireland in what became known as the "Flight of the Earls". Although it cannot be proved, they were found guilty of treason. By legal process six counties were declared escheated and these lands divided between English who undertook to settle people on the land, servitors who were mainly Scots, and Irish who had to pay rents twice as large as the other undertakers. This was the swan song of the Gaelic tradition, as Ulster became the most British of all the provinces. In the years immediately following the plantation of Ulster, three other plantations, in North Wexford (1610-20), Longford and Ely O'Carroll (1615-20), Leitrim and the midland districts along the Shannon (1620), comprising nearly half a million acres of land, were taken in hand. Emmel Castle near Nenagh on the border of Tipperary County was confiscated by Cromwell but was returned to the O'Carroll family when the monarchy was restored in England. It is in the area previously known as Ely O'Carrroll. Emigration to Ireland was eventually on a larger scale than was sought by the original objectives. The counties of Antrim and Down, which lay outside the areas of the official scheme, each attracted more settlers than any of the other counties further west. Nor did the movement of Scottish and English families come to an end in 1641, when the Irish rebelled. The peak rates of immigration were probably not reached until the second half of the seventeenth century. By 1659 Scottish and English settlers accounted for 37 % of the 70,800 householders in Ulster and half a century after the plantations were first established, the British and Irish were clearly segregated at township level. By 1665 Protestants owned just under four-fifths of the land but were only a third of the population and at the end of the first decade of the 18th century the total acreage for Irish Catholics was whittled down to 7% of the land total. The introduction of the English language and the Protestant religion, as well as new form of settlement and landholding, were important innovations of lasting consequence, but the cultural gap between the planter and the native Irish was not as great as is often supposed. The division deepened late.
[The Oxford Guide to Family History - David Hey - 1993 - p72-74]
Industry includes linen and cotton mills, coachbuilding works, flour and sawmills, a brewery, one of the largest cement works in the British Isles and factories making vegetable oil products, clothing, boots, fertilizer and spark plugs. Drogheda is the headquarters of valuable Boyne salmon fishing. Agricultural produce and coal are traded by sea. [Encyclopaedia Britannica]
While on a bus tour to Newgrange in June 1996 the driver mentioned that during the siege of Droghede in 1649 one of the families involved were the O'Carrolls. The Irish were besieging the Royalists who occupied Drogheda.
The English Government made provision for an army for the invasion of Ireland and on March 30, 1649 Cromwell accepted the command of this army where the adventurers and the conquering army were to be paid in Irish land. On 15 August he landed at Dublin and on 3 September he appeared before Drogheda with 10,000 men. A week later he stormed the town and began a policy of indiscriminate massacre. He put to the sword the whole garrison and not a few civilians, including every priest on whom he could lay his hands, in all about 2,800 persons. Ten counties were appropriated to soldiers and adventurers and later others were added. The chief effect of the Cromwellian plantation was to impose new English and puritan landlords on Ireland.
In June 1690, William III sailed from England to assume command of the army in Ireland. James II then fell back on Drogheda and assembled in the Oldbridge area south of the Boyne, 7,000 French infantry, some regular Irish cavalry and untrained Irish infantry and dragoons - altogether about 21,000 men. William followed closely on his heels and led the Dutch Blue Guards, two regiments of French Huguenots, some English, and contingents of Danish, Prussian, Finnish and Swiss mercenaries - altogether about 35,000 men. On June 30, sixteen days after he landed, the two armies stood facing each other, three miles west of Drogheda, with only the River Boyne between them. The odds against James were very great but the advantage of position lay with him. To the experienced eye the determination of William to force a passage on the following morning seemed little short of folly. James could not make up his mind either to fight or retreat. Forced by William's impetuous attack to turn and defend himself, when he was actually on the point of retiring, he was unable to bring half his army into action before his adversary had crossed the Boyne at Rosnaree on the left and at Oldbridge towards the right. Taken by surprise, the Irish and their allies, especially the cavalry, fought with a determination that fully justified criticism of William's tactics. Fearing encirclement by William's cavalry James was among the earliest to quit the field and hastily fled to France where he died in 1701. The Irish army made good its retreat, through the pass of Duleek, and carried on the war for another year in Ireland until they capitulated on 13 October 1691.
In terms of the Treaty of Limerick seven thousand officers and men who would not take an oath of allegiance to England departed for France in what became known as the "Flight of the Wild Geese". By his victory William secured the fall of Drogheda and Dublin and the flight of James from Ireland. This victory is commemorated annually as Orange Day in Northern Ireland (12 July in the new calendar). Ironically the Battle of the Boyne fought on 1 July 1690, took place on Irish soil between William III King of England and James II King of Scotland. Dragoon A Dragoon was a kind of carbine so called from its `breathing fire' A mounted infantryman armed with a dragoon - now a name for certain regiments of cavalry
Francis Carroll was a Dragoon Commander at the Battle of the Boyne with the rank of Colonel. From the names of officers in Col. Francis' Regiment it is evident that the regiment was mainly recruited in King's Coumty, the original home of the O'Carrolls. After the Treaty of Limerick in 1691 he volunteered for service of France where he was a Colonel in the celebrated Irish Brigade. He was killed in the Battle of Marsaglia, in Italy, in 1693. James Carroll, was a Captain in Lord Dongan's Regiment of Dragoons.
Thomas Carroll was first Lieu. Col. under Col. Francis Carroll and was killed at the Battle of the Boyne on 1 July 1690. Two of his sons were captured and transplanted to the north.
[O'Hart Pedigrees - p509]
[The Oxford Guide to Family History - David Hey - 1993 - p95]
Not until January 1847 did the British Government realise that something had to be done. By August that year 3 million people (nearly half the population of Ireland) were being fed by public money - often organised by the Quakers. Epidemics The Black Death, which visited Ireland in 1348 and 1349, had resulted in the deaths of approximately one-third of the population, forcing the Norman-Irish and Irish even closer in the face of a common calamity. Dysentery, a killer dicease, was reported in Dublin in November 1846 and scurvy was everywhere. Typhus and relapsing fever spread from western Ireland to the well-fed towns of the east. In December 1848, Cholera reached Ireland from Europe and was at its height in mid-1849.
1846 - 106,000 1847 - 215,000 of whom 3/4 went to America 1851 - 250,000 (3/4 went to America) The Irish had emigrated to England, Scotland, and Wales in large numbers long before the famine years of the 1840s. The 1841 census returns for England and Wales numbered 289,404 Irish born residents in England and Wales. Ten years later the totals had soared to 519,959. The peak was reached in 1861 when 601,634 were recorded. An estimated one million emigrated to America between 1841 and 1851 and in 1996 45 million Americans were of Irish descent Between 1845 and 1855 nearly 2 million people emigrated to America and Australia and another 750,000 to Britain. By 1900 over 4 million Irishmen had crossed the Atlantic and as many lived outside Ireland as lived in it. In the century up to 1930 one in two people born in Ireland made their homes elsewhere. In the 1950s an average of 60,000 people left the country every year.
In 1899 Arthur Griffith founded a newspaper which advocated a doctrine later known as Sinn Fein (Ourselves Alone) and in 1905 the Sinn Fein movement was organised as a political organisation.
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There was a distinct O'Carroll sept whose chief was lord of a territory extending from Kilkenny city northwards to the boundary of the present county of Leix The O'Carrolls of Ely derived their name O'Cearbhaill from Cearbhal, Lord of Ely. He was one of the leaders of the victorious army, which in 1014 decisively defeated the Vikings in battle at Clontarf, and thus descend from King Oilioll Olum. They retained their Gaelic way of life and distinct independence until the sixteenth century and its activities are frequently recorded in the Annals. Before the advent of the powerful Norman Butlers they possessed a very extensive territory in Co. Tipperary, but they were later restricted to the district around Birr, Co. Offaly.
In a list of most numerous surnames in Ireland, Carroll takes twenty-second place with a population of about 16,000 at the time Irish Families was written by E. MacLysaght. The majority are found in four counties stretching from Cork to Kilkenny. Roughly at the time when Catholicism was not acceptable in England and Cromwell was on the rampage in Ireland the prefixes O and Mac were widely discarded, and the simple form Carroll used. In 1893, two to three hundred years later, Dr. Douglas Hyde, a scholar poet, founded the Gaelic League to promote Irish culture. The founding of the Gaelic League was probably the stimulus that resulted in John Thomas Carroll assuming the name O'Carroll in 1894. This was at a time when resumption of the use of prefixes was part of the Gaelic resurgence. MacCarroll, an entirely distinct surname, is also often shorn of its prefix Mac and may lead to confusion in the case of the name Carroll. However, undoubtedly, the majority of the people called Carroll are, in fact, O'Carrolls. [Irish Families - E. Mac Lysaght] Ny: This is another form of the Irish Ni, a contraction for "inghean" (Latin "nata"), a daughter, which in Irish was prefixed to the sirnames of the daughters in a family; as Mac or "O" was prefixed to the sirnames of the sons, or male descendants.
[O'Hart Pedigrees - p246]
Carroll àCeaRéIL Carroll is a very ancient name which translated from the Irish, cearbhaill, means slaughter or, preferably, warlike champion. Maolsuthain, a clerical member of the family, was Brian Boru's official confessor and accompanied him everywhere. Previously this family had been kings of Munster. They were with the High King, Brian Boru, at the victorious battle of Clontarf in 1014. Maonuigh, who was slain in 1022, was the first of the family to assume the surname Carroll.
At one time there were six Carroll septs. The O'Carrolls of Ely lorded over thousands of acres of rich land in counties Tipperary and Offaly. (About seventeen miles north of Cloughjordan in County Tipperary, the hill of Knockshigowna is named after the fairy queen, Una, who was the legendary guardian spirit of the O Carrolls). Equally, the O Carrolls of Oriel had their vast acres in counties Louth and Monaghan. These two prominent families, as well as the lesser ones, were scattered with the arrival of the Norman Butlers towards the end of the twelfth century. Excepting Ulster, the O Carrolls, who possibly number 16,000, are to be found today in all the provinces, and especially in Munster.
Histories - Ida Grehan - p24]
"O'CARROLL, CARROLL; O Caerbhaill, is the usual Irish form of this genuine ancient native Irish `O' surname. It means, `descendent of Caerbhall' (Charles). There are several distinct families so named, of which the following are the best known: (i) of Eile, who derive their name and descend from Cearbhall, Lord of Eile, who fought at Clontarf. The head of this family was originally Lord of all Eile, which comprised the baroncies of Clonlisk and Ballybritt, in the present Offaly, and Ikerrin and Eliogarty, in Co. Tipperary, until the Anglo- Norman invasion: (ii) of Oriel, who were chiefs of Oriel until about the period of the Anglo-Norman invasion, when they disappear from history; (iii) of Loch Lein (the district about Killarney) anciently chiefs of the Eoghanacht (the race of `Eoghan Mor', son of `Oillioll Olum', King of Munster in the 3rd century), until dispossed by the O'Donoghue's; (iv) of Ossary, who are descended from Caerbhaill, a celebrated chieftain of Ossary at the middle of the 9th century; (v) of Tara, a branch of the southern Ui Neill; (vi)of Calry, in Sligo and Leitrim. Mac Cearbhaill, the Irish form of the name in some parts of Ulster and some parts of West Mayo and West Galway, is also a genuine Irish personal name; derivation as above. They were a celebrated family of musicians in Ulster. In 1594, the Ballym'Carroll, parcel of lands of Gillekeaghe M'Carroll, and of Ballymack-Carroll, lapsed to the crown. There was also a family of the name in Leix."
[Printed on the back of a Bookmark, produced by Classic Designs Ltd - see Coat of Arms] -------------
Carroll: Originally O Cearbhaill meaning "war-like champion" from the 3rd century King of Munster, Oilioll Olum. Found in Tipperary and Offaly counties.
[On the Ancestor Trail - Travel Bugs guide on IRELAND] -------------
O'Carroll Gaelic: à Cearbhaill COMMON VARIATIONS: MacCarroll, Mac Carvill, Carroll There are two distinct Carroll surnames, O'Carroll and MacCarroll, which taken together number about 16,000 in Ireland today. The great majority of these are in fact O'Carrolls. Before the Anglo-Norman invasion there were six distinct septs of O'Carroll, but by far the most important were the O'Carrolls of Ely O'Carroll (Tipparary and Offaly) and those of Oriel (Monaghan and Louth). The O'Carrolls of Ely O'Carroll derive their name from Cearbhal, Lord of Ely, who was one of the leaders of the army, which defeated the Danes at Clontarf in 1014. Their ancestry can be traced back to the 3rd century King of Munster, Oilioll Olum. Today most of the O'Carrolls in Ireland are found in Cos. Kilkenny, Louth and Offaly. There were two distinct MacCarroll septs, one in south Leinster and one in Ulster although in Ulster the Irish Mac Cearbhaill is now anglicized to Mac Carvill. This Ulster sept was situated at Ballymaccarroll and was particularly noted for their musicians. -------------
- The Anglicised form of the name which in Gaelic is à Cearbhaill. "An Irish friend once told me how to pronounce it properly - something like ookaroo," wrote David O'Carroll from Leeds on 6 March 1997.
Ua Cearbhaill is an early Irish form of the name found in The Annals of the Four Masters. This suggests O'Carroll is a correct translation in the Anglicised form. It is also evident from names recorded in the Irish Brigade of the French Army that both Carroll and O'Carroll were used by the Irish.
O'CARROLL - Lord of Ely O'Carroll
It is stated that a barony was granted in 1552 to Teige O'Carroll, as Baron of Ely O'Carroll but the patent or the record of the patent is nowhere to be found. [Dormant & Extinct Peerage - Burke]
O'Carroll is shown in some maps indicating a strong presence of people with this name in Kilkenny, Louth, Offaly and Tipperary. [Index Names in Maps]
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Though not greatly distinguished in history. Birr has more claims to antiquarian and military notice than many provincial towns of its size. Its site was known under the name of Biorra, in the middle of the 6th century; and, like many other Irish localities of ancient name, claims to have had a very early monastic institution. The dreamer Archdall, referring to the 6th century, says, " St. Brendan Luaigneus, son of Neim or Nemaind, and a favourite poet, founded the abbey of Biorra." A feudal town, or an assemblage of dwellings inhabited by the retainers and followers of the toparch of the O'Carrols, was of sufficient bulk and wealth in the 9th century, to be an object of contention among the Irish tribes, and an object of attraction to their common enemies the Danes. In 1162, it was burnt ; and toward 1200, it was wrested from the O'Carrols, and granted to the Butlers of Ireland, Theobald Fitzgerald, the founder of the great Irish family of the name of Butler. The O'Carrols repeatedly re- acquired it by force, and were as often dispossessed. Gerald, 9th Earl of Kildare, laid siege to the castle, in aid of one of their attempts ; but he received on the head a wound from which he never entirely re-covered; he immediately withdrew his troops, and returned home; and, soon afterwards, he was arrested, and sent to the Tower of London — a circumstance which occasioned the rebellion of his son. Lord Thomas Fitzgerald. The castle was besieged and reduced both by the Lord-deputy Grey and the Lord-deputy Brabazon : and Teig O'Carrol, submitting to the latter in 1549, and was created, for the period of his own life. Baron of Ely, by Edward VI.
In 1557, the
O'Carrols at length obtained possession of Birr by royal
patent; but they soon plunged into rebellion, and, in 1612,
and final confiscation. In 1620, Sir William Parsons, a
respectable family from Norfolk, received a grant of the town
circumjacent estate from James I. ; and between that period and
his death, he
built flankers and barbicans to the castle, erected several new
streets in the
town, and effectually laid the foundation of Birr's prosperity.
From 1641 till
1643, this gentleman, the ancestor of the Earls of Rosse,
with Sir John Borlase, the Lord-justiceship or general
government of the
kingdom. In the civil war of 1641, Captain William Parsons held
Birr for the
English ; but, after a severe siege, he was compelled, next
year, to surrender
to General Preston; and, in 1650, the Irish were, in their turn,
the Parliamentarian General, Ireton. Captain Parsons adhered to
party, and was put in repossession of his estates. Birr speedily
the effects of the war; and, in 1689, was the seat of a sort of
James II. Sir William Parsons, of that period, was suspected by
to be attached to the cause of the Prince of Orange, and was
surrender to a Jacobite colonel, of the name of Oxburgh, who had
acted as his
own steward ; but he resisted, and, though formally found guilty
treason and condemned, was saved from James II.'s vengeance, and
his property, in consequence of the victory of the Boyne. A
party of William
the Third's troops occupied the castle and the town, surrounded
earthen ramparts, suffered a siege within them from General
compelled the Irish to retire after one day of
[Extract from The Parliamentary Gazetter of Ireland 1846.]
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With large families and limited transport, prior to the 20th Century, it is not surprising that there were marriages within the family. Here are some examples: (1) Sarah Carroll, b.( 1720 (dau of Edward Carroll, b.1712) == Richard Bell, her 1st cousin. [see OCFT-3 - Ely O'Carroll] (2) Daniel Carroll b.1730 == Elizabeth Carroll b.(1731 - a 2nd cousin - their g-fathers were brothers. [see OCFT-7-America] (3) John Thomas Carroll, b.1817, married Anne, b.1818, dau of John Hatton (4) Joseph Hatton Carroll, b.1820, married Caroline, b.1825, dau of John Hatton These two brothers married sisters, who were also their cousins. First cousins if their parents Mary Hatton and John Hatton were brother and sister. (5) Theodore Frederick Carroll, b.1850, married Laura b.1848, dau of Elizabeth Carroll. Their grandfathers were brothers, so they were 2nd cousins.
It has been claimed that there were 25 castles guarding the O'Carroll land in Ely O'Carroll. The whereabouts of some of these castles has been established and it is hoped that the location on the others will be established soon.
[Extract from Country Life, Vol. CXXXVII No 3547 February 25, 1965]
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(1) O'Carroll (Ely) Sable two lions rampant combatant or armed and A black shield with two gold lions standing langued gules supporting a sword point upwards as though in combat, claws and tongue red, proper pommel and hilt of the first supporting a sword pointing upwards in natural colour, pommel and hilt golden. This Coat of Arms, which has an empty scroll at the foot of the shield, with the name displayed beneath the scroll was seen in colour plate III in "Irish Families" by Edward MacLaysaght.
(2) The drawing of another Coat of Arms, Crest and Motto looks exactly like the one described in (1) above except that: - (a) The lions were drawn in an older style. (b) The crest is on a wreath of the colours. This is normal for all Coats of Arms.
(3) The name of the person entitled to this Coat of Arms is unknown. Arms - Argent, two lions rampant, combatant gules, Arms - A silver shield with two upright red lions supporting a sword, point downwards, facing each other as though in combat, with a sword, proper, pommel and hilt or. in natural colour with a gold pommel and hilt, pointing downwards between them. Crest - On the stump of a an oak tree sprouting, Crest - On the stump of a sprouting oak tree a rising a hawk rising all proper, belled or. hawk, all natural colour, with golden bells attached to its legs. Motto - In fide et in bello fortis. Motto - Strong in faith and in war.
Coote Alexander Carroll, Esq., of Ashford, co. Wicklow. Arms - Argent, two lions combatant gules, Arms - A silver shield with two red lions facing each supporting a sword erect in pale proper, other as though in combat, between them on a raised in dexter chief point, a cross flory sable. background a sword of natural colour pointing upwards, and with a black cross, with the limbs ending in fleur -de- lie, in the top left corner of the shield. Crest - On the stump of a tree, a falcon rising, Crest - On the stump of a tree, a rising falcon with bells belled proper, charged on the breast with attached to its legs, in natural colour and with a black a cross flory sable. cross ending in fleu-de lie on its breast. Motto - Flecti non frangi Motto - May be bent not broken. [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p172] This Coat of Arms includes a cross, which has a special significance as a religious emblem. Fairbairns Book of Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland - Vol 1 - P102, includes in the crest "sprouting, to the dexter" after tree.
Frederick John Chrysostom Joseph Locke O'Carroll Esq., Barrister-at-Law, J.P. Co. Dublin, of Athgoe Park, Hazlehatch, Co. Kildare. Arms - Quarterly, 1 and 4, argent, a sword erect in Arms - 1st quarter - on a silver shield a sword held pale proper, supported by two lions counter- upright, natural colouring, supported by two red lions rampant, gules. (for O'Carroll) standing on their hind-legs facing each other. 2. Per fesse azure and or, a pale counter 2nd quarter - six squares alternately blue and gold with charged, three falcons rising, two and one three rising falcons, two on the first and one on the of the second, each holding a fettelock in second row each holding a fetterlock - a padlock and the beak, sable. (for Locke) shackle - in its beak. 3. Chequy, or and azure, on a canton of the 3rd quarter - checkered in blue and gold with a gold second a saltire of the first. (for Warren) cross on a blue background in the top left corner. 4th quarter - The same as the 1st quarter. Crest - On a wreath of the colours, on the stump Crest - A naturally coloured falcon rising from the of an oak, a falcon rising all proper. stump of an oak tree that is resting on a wreath of the colours of the 1st quarter. Motto - In fide et in bello fortis. Motto - Strong in faith and in war.
(6) Kathleen Eily O'Carroll Arms - Quarterly 1 and 4: Arg., two lions rampant Arms - 1st quarter - On a silver shield two red lions (U.O.) combatant gu. supporting a sword erect ppr. in combatant stance support a upright sword naturally pomel and hilt or. (O'Carroll); coloured with gold pomel and hilt. 2: per fesse az., and or, a pale countercharged, 2nd Quarter - Six squares alternately blue and gold three falcons rising two and one of the second, with three rising falcons, two on the first and one on the each holding in the beak a fetterlock sa. second row each holding in the beak a fetterlock (Locke) (padlock and schakle). 3: chequy or and az. on a canton arg. a lion 3rd Quarter - checkered in blue and gold with a rampant rampant gu. (Warren). red lion in the top left corner on a silver background 4th Quarter - The same as the first. Crest - On a stump of an oak tree, sprouting, a falcon Crest - On the stump of a sprouting oak tree a naturally rising ppr. belled or. coloured falcon, with gold bells, is rising. Motto - In fide et in bello fortis. Motto - Strong in faith and in war. Residence - Ashurst, Kiltimon, Newcastle, Co. Wicklow. [The Landed Gentry of Ireland by Burke - p529]
The differences between the two Coats of Arms, which are significant, have been underlined in the plain language descriptions. Kathleen Eily O'Carroll, was the daughter of Frederick John Chrysostom Joseph Locke O'Carroll, named above.
NOTE: A daughter who inherits different Coats of Arms from her father and from her mother would use her father's arms in the 1st and 4th quarters and her mother's arms in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. A husband who did not inherit his own arms would use his wife's arms with her father's pronominal coat in the top left corner of the 3rd quarter. The falcons in the 2nd and 3rd quarters being the same as in the crest suggest that a mother and father were from the same family at one stage. These two descriptions suggest that an Irish person with a quartered Coat of Arms and a person with the Warren Coat of Arms married. The two Coats of Arms were then merged with the checkered 3rd quarter of the Coat of Arms for the Irish person being replaced with one containing the cross, or the lion to represent the Warren family. There is a French Coat of Arms for Warren which is identical to the Coat of Arms with a small lion in the third quarter. -
A description similar to items (5) and (6) above but with a cross of St. Andrew in place of the lion in the 3rd quarter is found in Fox-Davies' genealogy.
Some Coats of Arms exist with `Seatar Aboe' in a scroll above the crest. This Irish war cry is pronounced "shatar abu" meaning "Get out of the way" or "Make way"
(9) These are the arms of the son of Michael Carroll, merchant of Buenos Aires, b.1831; d.1895; m.1878, Alicia Emma, d. of John Galagher, surgeon R.N., of Lima, S. America: Edmond John Carroll, Lieut. (Ret.) R.G.A. b.1879; m.1905, Emily Lucy, d. of Edward H. Oyler, and had issue - Charles Edmond Carroll, b.1906, and Alice Frances Agatha. Res. 16 Campton Hill Gardens, Kensington. Clubs - Roehampton, Argentine Yacht. Arms - Azure, two lions rampant combatant or, Arms - On a blue shield below a silver band in the top chief argent two quatrefoils of the first. third, on which are two blue flowers, two gold lions stand facing each other as though in combat. Crest - On a wreath of the colours, a falcon close Crest - On a wreath of the colours, a falcon, in natural proper, belled or, standing upon the branch colour, with wings close to the body and gold bells of oak fructed, and holding in the beak an attached to its legs, stands on the branch of an oak acorn leaved and slipped proper. bearing fruit and holding in its beak an acorn with a stem and leaves attached, in natural colour. Motto - Fortis in fide. Motto - Strong in faith. [Armorial Familis A-H by Fox-Davies - p319]
(10) These are the arms of the sons of Rev. Frederick Carroll of Munduft, Ashrord, Co. Wicklow, and of Woodhouse, Halifax, Co. York. M.A. (Cantab.) b. 1827; d. 1899; m. 1851, Ellen Charlotte 4th d. of Henry Sankey, R.N., of Reston House, Kent and Green Park, Bath. Raymond John Hereward Wake Carroll b. 1867 and Alexander Ernest Carroll, Gentleman, b.1870, m. 1897, Margaret, third d. of Thomas Henderson; and had issue Beatrice Ellen Mary, res. 7 Appian Way, Leeson Park, Dublin. Arms - Per pale argent and gules, two lions Arms - On a shield of the colours divided vertically into combatant, countercharged, supporting a silver and red halves, two lions stand facing each other sword erect in pale proper. as though in combat, supporting a sword, in natural colour, pointing upwards between them. Crest - On a wreath of the colours, on the stump of a Crest - On a wreath of the colours, on the stump of a tree sprouting proper, a falcon rising per pale sprouting tree, in natural colour, a falcon rises up, argent and gules, belled and jessed or. divided vertically in silver and red halves with gold bells thronged to its legs. Motto - Flecti non frangi. Motto - May be bent not broken. [Armorial Families by Fox-Davies - p319] The motto is the same as for Coat of Arms No.4. The two people lived in the same county and may have been close relatives. Fairbairns Book of Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland - Vol 1- P102, includes in the cest "on the dexter side" after sprouting.
Grace Maureen Catherine Carroll Arms - Gu, two Lions combatant or, supporting a Arms - On a red shield two gold lions supporting an sword erect of the second upright gold sword. Crest - On the stump of a tree sprouting ppr a falcon Crest - On the stump of a sprouting tree a red falcon rising gu. rising. Motto - In fide et in bello forte Motto - Strong in faith and in war. Seats: Dundalk House, Dundalk, co. Louth Killineer House, Drogheda, co. Louth Moone Abbey, co. Kildare [Irish Family Records by Burke - p215] -------------
Each page of PLANCHES DE L'ARMORIAL GENERAL by Rietstap contains fifty-six small drawings of Coats of Arms. Each drawing is about one inch wide and one and a half inches high. The descriptions are in another book, which refers to the Institut Heraldique, Paris. Three of the Coats of Arms relate to the O'Carroll family. In the drawings Irl or New York appears below the name at the foot of the shield.
(12) O'CARILL - IRL O'CAROLL - IRELAND Blason: D'arg. … une ‚p‚e de gu., accost‚e de deux Arms: A silver shield with a sword supported by two lions du meme red lions confronting each other Crete: un tronc d'arbre, supp. un faucon ess., le tout Crest: On the trunk of a tree a falcon rising, all au nat. natural colour. Devise: In Fide et in Bello Fortes. Motto: Strong in faith and in war.
(13) O'CAROL - IRL O'CARROLL - IRELAND Blason: D'arg. … huit etoills rayonnantes degn., Arms: A silver shield with eight stars radiant composed 3, 3, et 2. un ‚cusson d'arg., ch. de trois 3, 3 and 2. The insignia silver charged in three pile de gu. wedge-shaped rows of red
(14) CARROLL de CARROLLTON - NEW YORK CARROLL of CARROLLTON - NEW YORK Blason: D'arg une ‚p‚e d'arg., garnie d'or, accost‚e Arms: On a silver shield, a silver sword, with de deux lions affr. de du. gold ornaments [supported by] two red lions confronting each other [rampant]
Joseph Robert Carroll, of Toledo, Ohio, U.S.America. Arms - Sable, bordure invected gules, two lions Arms - On a black shield, a red border, with small rampant combatant or, armed and langued convex lobes internally, two rampant gold lions, claws gules, supporting a sword, pointing and tongues red, supporting a sword, pointing upwards, upwards, proper, pommel and hilt or. natural colour, pommel and hilt golden. Crest - On the stump of an oak tree, sprouting, Crest - On a wreath of the colours, on the stump of a a falcon, wings displayed and inverted, sprouting oak tree, a falcon, with gold bells attached to all proper, belled or. |its legs, rising with wings spread and pointing down. Motto - In fide officioque fortis. Motto - Strong in faith and duty. An American of Irish descent Joseph Robert Carroll was granted a modern Irish Coat of Arms by the Chief Herald of Ireland.
Elizabeth Catherine Carroll-Irvin, second dau. and coh. of Rev. Theophilus de la Cour Carroll, late of Clareville Lodge, co. Mayo, by Catherine, younger dau. and coh. of Arthur Irvin of Willowbrook and Oakfield, co. Sligo; who assumed the name and arms of Irvin by Royal Licence, 31 May1892. Arms - On a lozenge, quarterly, 1 and 4, argent, a Arms - On a diamond, quartered, fesse gules, between three holly-leaves 1st and 4th quarters silver with the centre third proper (for Irvin) ; 2 and 3, argent, two red, with two holly leaves, in natural colour, in lions combatant gules, supporting a sword the top thord and one in the bottom third; proper, hilt and pommel or (for Carroll) 2nd and 3rd quarters silver with two red lions standing facing each other as though in combat, supporting a sword, in natural colour with a |gold hilt and pommel [Armorial Families A-H by Fox-Davies - p319] Normally unmarried daughters bear their paternal arms, including the quartering, and any mark of cadency the father may use. They bear the arms on lozenges (a diamond-shaped figure), without the use of crest or accessories.
A Plaque is produced by Irish Culture & Craftwork Ltd of the Coat of Arms with a black shield and two gold lions. The motto is shown as "In - Fide - et - in - Bello - Fortes". O'Carroll appears in a scroll above the crest. On the back are two labels. One shows their address as French Furze Grove, Kildare, Co. Kildare, Republic of Ireland, Telephone 045-21547. The other states "O'Carroll - O Cearbhaill. Several different septs were so called; those in Ely O'Carroll and Oriel are important; minor septs were in Kerry and Leitrim. Motto: Strong both in faith and war.
A Ceramic Disc, a Mug and a Key Ring, with only the shield on them in nearly the same style and colours as the plaque, are also sold in Ireland. The disc has O'Carroll in a scroll where the motto would normally be found, while the mug has O'Carroll and the key ring has Carroll below the shield without a scroll.
(19) A Bookmark with a Coat of Arms on it consisting of the black shield and two gold lions has O'Carroll in a scroll below the shield. It is produced by Classic Designs Ltd, and published by Unit 8, The Blarney, County Cork, Ireland. Printed on the back of it is: - "O'Carroll, Carroll; O Caerbhaill, is the usual Irish form of this genuine ancient native Irish `O' surname. It means, `descendent of Caerbhall' (Charles). There are several distinct families so named, of which the following are the best known: - (i) of Eile, who derive their name and descend from Cearbhall, lord of Eile, who fought at Clontarf. The head of this family was originally lord of all Eile, which comprised the baroncies of Clonlisk and Ballybritt, in the present Offaly, and Ikerrin and Eliogarty, in Co. Tipperary, until the Anglo- Norman invasion: (ii) of Oriel, who were chiefs of Oriel until about the period of the Anglo-Norman invasion, when they disappear from history; (iii) of Loch Lein (the district about Killarney) anciently chiefs of the Eoghanacht (the race of `Eoghan Mor', son of `Oillioll Olum', King of Munster in the 3rd century), until dispossessed by the O'Donoghue's; (iv) of Ossary, who are descended from Caerbhaill, a celebrated chieftain of Ossary at the middle of the 9th century; (v) of Tara, a branch of the southern Ui Neill; (vi) of Calry, in Sligo and Leitrim. Mac Cearbhaill, the Irish form of the name in some parts of Ulster and some parts of West Mayo and West Galway, is also a genuine Irish personal name; derivation as above. They were a celebrated family of musicians in Ulster. In 1594, the Ballym'Carroll, parcel of lands of Gillekeaghe M'Carroll, and of Ballymack-Carroll, lapsed to the crown. There was also a family of the name in Leix."
(20) About 1960, " The Star " newspaper in Johannesburg published a letter to the editor under a heading of "WOLFHOUNDS WERE MATCHED AGAINST LIONS IN ROME". The letter by Nord Modreeny was a reply to an earlier letter and included "The letters of ... on the tallest dog in the world are rather interesting, because, my crest on the helm of my armour, as shown on my coat of arms, is a Wolfhound and I am the only owner in the world of this battle crest, being a descendant of Ely O'Carroll, one of the 12 Kings of Ireland 700 B.C..." Arms: (drawing) Arms: A shield with the heads of three wolfhounds facing left, two in the first row and one in the second. Crest: (drawing) Crest: A wolfhound, standing proudly on the wreath of the colours above a helmet. Motto: Vincit qui patitur Motto: He conquers who possesses
The descriptions of these Arms, Crests and Mottoes are not complete. Each item however differs in some aspect from the Coats of Arms shown above.
(21) Carrol, or Carroll. Arms - Ar. a cross crosslet sa. Arms - On a silver shield, a black cross with each | limb crossed. Crest - a bear's head sa. muzzled or, betw. two Crest - A black bear's head, with a gold muzzle, wings of the last. | between two golden wings. Motto - Not shown Motto - [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p172] Carrol, or Carroll, Eng., - a bear's head, sa., muzzled, or, between wings, of the last - This is an almost identical description of the crest and it indicates that the family was in England. [Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland by Fairbairn - Vol 1 - p98]
(22) Carroll Arms - Ermine a cross-crosslet - sable Arms - On a shield, having an ermine fur pattern of black spots on a white background, a black cross with each limb crossed. Crest - Not shown Crest - Motto - Not shown Motto - [A Treatise on Heraldry - British and Foreign by Woolword - p162]
(23) Henry Carroll of Ballynure, co. Wicklow Arms - Ar.two lions combatant gu. supporting a Arms - On a silver shield two combatant red lions sword of the first, hilted and pommelled or. support a silver sword with gold hilt and pommel. Crest - On the stump of an oak sprouting new Crest - On the stump of an oak tree sprouting new branches ppr. a hawk of the last, belled or. branches, naturally coloured, is a hawk in natural colour with gold bells. [attached to its legs] Motto - In fide et in bello forte. Motto - Strong in faith and in war. [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p172] Fairbairns Book of Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland - Vol 1 - P98 shows: Crest - On the stump of oak, sprouting, a hawk, ppr., belled, or. Motto - In fide et in bello fortes
(24) Sir James Carroll Arms - Sa. two lions ramp. combatant or, supporting Arms - On a black shield two rampant gold lions a sword ppr. pomell and hilt gold | in combatant stance, supporting a sword in natural colour with the pomell and hilt gold. Crest - Not shown. Crest - Motto - Not shown. Motto - Dublin. Fun.Ent. of Elizabeth Legge, d.17 Sept., 1613 wife of Sir James Carroll, Knt, Lord Mayor of Dublin. [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p172]
(25) Sir William O'Carroll Arms - Sa. two lions ramp. combatant or, armed Arms - On a black shield, two rampant gold lions and langued gu. supporting a sword, in combatant stance, with red claws and tongues, point upwards ppr. pommel and hilt gold supporting a sword , point upwards, in natural colour, with the pomell and hilt gold. Crest - Not shown. Crest - Motto - Not shown Motto - Lord of Ely, or the territory of Eile, extending over part of the King's co. and co. Tipperary; descended from EILE, seventh in descent from Cian, son of Oliol Ollum, King of Munster; Chief of his name, he was knighted at Limerick, 30 March, 1567, by Sir Henry Sydney, Lord Deputy of Ireland, His brother Teige O'Carroll, of Ely O'Carroll, Chief of his Sept, was styled by Sir Frances Ware, "Petty King of Ely" [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p745]
(26) Sir Moalroona O'Carroll Arms - Ar. two lions ramp. combatant gu. Arms - On a silver shield two rampant red lions in supporting a sword point upwards of the combatant pose supporting a red sword point upwards, last, pommel and hilt or. the pommel and hilt gold Crest - Not shown Crest - Motto - Not shown Motto - Lord of Ely O'Carroll; Chief of his name, he was knighted at Dublin by Sir George Cary, Lord Deputy, 25 July 1603. He was the son of Sir William O'Carroll ODHAR referred to in item 25. [THE GENERAL ARMORY - Burke - p745]
(27) O'Carroll of Carrollstown, Maryland, U.S. America Arms - Gu. two lions ramp. combatant ar. | Arms - On a black shield, two rampant silver lions supporting a sword point upwards ppr. in combatant pose, supporting a sword in natural colour, pommel and hilt or. point upwards, pomell and hilt gold. Crest - On the stump of an oak-tree sprouting, | Crest - On the stump of a sprouting oak-tree, a hawk rising all ppr. belled or. a hawk, with gold bells attached to its legs, is rising, | all in natural colour. Motto - Not shown Motto - Descended from Charles O'Carroll, [b.1660] Attorney-General for Maryland, where he got a grant of 60,000 acres, the son of Roger and the grandson of Sir Maolroona O'Carroll, knighted 1 March 1608. [correct date 25 July 1603] Mary, dau. and heir of Charles Carroll, of Carrollstown [Carrollton], one of those who signed the Declaration of American Independence, m. Richard Caton, Esq., Maryland, and had three daus. co-heirs: I. Mary Anne, m. First, Robert Paterson, Esq., and, secondly, 1835, Richard, Marquess Wellesly; II. Elizabeth, m.1836, George William, Lord Stafford; III. Louisa, m., first, 1817, Sir Felton Hervey Bathurst, Bart.; and, secondly, Francis Godolphin, seventh Duke of Leeds. This coat was exemplified by Betham, Ulster, 12 July 1826, to Mary Anne, Marchioness Wellesley. [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p745] Note: The 12 July is Orange Day in Northern Ireland, when they celebrate the victory at the Battle of the Boyne Mary Anne (Carroll) Wellesley was born a Catholic. Her ancestors came from King's County in Ireland. She may have adopted the Anglican faith when she married.
(28) O'Carroll of Maryland, U.S.America, Arms - Gu. two lions ramp. combatant ar. Arms - On a black shield, two rampant silver lions supporting a sword point upwards ppr. in combatant pose, supporting a sword in natural colour, pommel and hilt or. point upwards, pomell and hilt gold. Crest - On the stump of an oak-tree sprouting, Crest - On the stump of a sprouting oak-tree, a hawk rising all ppr. belled or. a hawk, with gold bells attached to its legs, is rising, all in natural colour. Motto - Not shown Motto - A branch of O'Carroll, of Ely O'Carroll, descended from Roney O'Carroll and James O'Carroll, nephews of Sir Daniel O'Carroll, Knt., of St Jago, in Spain, who emigrated to St Kitts, West Indies, temp. Queen Anne. [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p745] The arms and the crest are the same as in the preceding item but they seem to belong to two different families.
(29) O'Carroll of Ardagh, co. Galway Arms - Gu. two lions ramp. combatant ar. Arms - On a black shield, two rampant silver lions supporting a sword point upwards ppr. in combatant pose, supporting a sword in natural colour, pommel and hilt or. point upwards, pomell and hilt gold. Crest - On the stump of an oak tree sprouting new Crest - On the stump of an oak tree, sprouting new branches a hawk rising all ppr. belled or. branches, a hawk, with gold bells attached to its legs, is rising, all in natural colour. Motto - In fide et in bello forte. Motto - Strong if faith and in war. Also of Dunmore, in same co., and Avondale, Blackrock, co. Dublin; Descended from Redmond or Remy O'Carroll, Esq., of Ardagh, d.1755, brother of Sir Daniel O'Carroll, Knt., of St Jago, in Spain, now represented by Rev. John James O'Carroll of the Oratory, Brompton, London - Reg. Ulster's Office. [THE GENERAL ARMORY by Burke - p745] The arms are the same as in the previous item. The description of the crest is a little different. There seem to be at least three families involved.
(30) Carrol, or Carroll, Iri., Arms - Not shown. Arms - Crest - a tent gu. Crest - a red tent. Motto - Not shown Motto - A tent with broad red and white stripes is pictured in Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland by Fairbairn - Vol 1 - p98. -------------
(31) Carrol, Knt; of London, Arms - Not shown Arms - Crest - on a mount vert, a stag lodged regardant Crest - On a green hillock, a silver stag, at rest with arg. attired or. the head turned so as to look backwards over the shoulder, with gold antlers Motto - Semper eadem. Motto - Always in the same way. [Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland by Fairbairn - Vol 1 - p102]
(32) O'Carrill, Iri., Arms - Not shown Arms - Crest - (between two sprigs,) a falcon, rising, Crest - A falcon in natural colour with gold bells belled, ppr. attached to its legs, rising (between two sprigs) Motto - Not shown Motto - [Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland by Fairbairn - Vol 1 - p358] ---o0o---
Answer, Car - roll
In the list of Chiefs Commanding the 2nd Column of the Irish we find O'Carroll Prince of Orgiell in Ulster ( Unguire, Prince of Fermanagh the two most illustrious Irishmen that gained the field that day see Morre's Ireland 1936 Aug 14 This is a copy of a memo received from my father in November 1898. This Mary Carroll was my Father's mother. John Thomas Carroll (1852-1941) added the note. Mary (Hatton) Carroll (1786-1870) was his grandmother. In 1898 John Thomas Carroll, my grandfather, was living in London and his father Joseph Hattton Carroll (1820-1905) was in Cork.
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1st Thomas who died aged about 21 years; he appeared in the ministry at the age of 18 years; a very devout man.
2nd John Carroll who married a lady called Sarah Corfield they lived in the city of Cork and had 3 children. Joshua & Thomas, both of whom were in the firm of "Joshua & Thomas Carroll" leading merchants in the city of Cork from about 1817 when they succeeded to their father's business (timber trade). In 1831 when Joshua died, Thomas surviving but one short year.
3rd Edward Carroll my [Mary Carroll Bewley's] father who lived in the homestead where my grandfather had been born & died continued in the same occupation until he came to America in 1798 [correct date 21 May 1801] He married Elizabeth Murray daughter of Joseph Murray. Marjory Hogg was her mother's name. I think her grandmother's name was Hunter; they were all Scotch.
4th William Carroll who married a Friend Ellen Marrow they had three daughters: Sarah, Elizabeth married a Mr Webb, lived at Cork; Silvia[?] married James Sloane settled in Nova Scotia, now a widower no children.
5th Isaac Carroll married a lady ? Fisher, a Friend. They also lived in Cork. Had 3 sons Edward, James & Joseph & I think 2 or 3 daughters.
6th Elizabeth Carroll married Jared [?] Davies a Friend. He owned a large farm & had an impressive linen factory. Their children were _
7th Isabella Carroll married Robert Williams; lived adjoining my father's farm. He was not a Friend occupation farming & linen draper; no children.
8th Deborah Carroll married William English a malt dealer between Lisburn & Moira. [They had 4 children]
9th Sarah Carroll married Richard Bell a Friend. They lived at Trummery on the verge of Ballinderry meeting.
10th Nancy Carroll -------------
On 21 May 1801 we landed in Philadelphia - my father and 8 children. In the year 1803 my brother John Carroll went to New Orleans trading thence to New York 7 from there to (S. Carolina) whence he was sent as consul to Leghorn by the US government. His property being threatened with confiscation he joined Napoleon's army as commissary officer; was at the taking of Moscow; & after the defeat of Napoleon he went to Brazil. He died in 1836, no children.
My mother [ie Elizabeth nee Murray] had 10 children.
Joseph married Elizabeth Ellis; had
2. John, above mentioned
3. Sally married Ja Whinnery a wealthy farmer.
4. Edward married Rachel Hambleton of Baltimore a Friend; had 3 children.
5. Marjory married Wm Whinnery James' brother; several children.
6. Deborah married Randolph, a descendant of the Indian_
7. Eliza died at her mother's home, East Liverpool, Ohio in 1837.
8. Thomas married Anne Williams a Friend. Their children are Foster, Robert, Will & Laura.
9. Isaac died at 2 years of age.
10. Anne married Abel Thomas.
Grandfather [who emigrated to the US with his children] - Edward Carroll died at our home East Liverpool, Ohio I think in February 1831 aged 81years.
The long letter from which I have made the above extract was lent me by Robert Wm Carroll of Cincinnati, Ohio, Barrister -at-law, son of Thomas eighth son of Edward in his letter to me of 17 May 1893. This family history of the Carroll pedigree is to me a most interesting record. It coincides with the account of Colonel O'Carroll's death at the battle of the Boyne in O'Harte's Irish Pedigrees: 2 vols 30/- published, Dublin 1890 or so. Joseph Hatton Carroll 9 July 1898
Extract from an account by Robt. W. Carroll to Jos. Hatton Carroll dated May 16th 1893
She thought she was thoroughly democratic, yet she was the haughtiest woman I think I ever saw. I think she would have wilted Queen Victoria. She hadn't the faintest idea that any other family was equal to hers, and none of her children married to suit her. I have always heard grandfather spoken of as a very affable gentle and kind man, and grandmother as a woman possessing a little acid in her make up and a decided will of her own. She was quite wrapped up in her sons, with the unexpressed conviction that girls either did not amount to much or else were quite competent to take care of themselves. This talk of Aunt Sarah about the family should be considered in light of the facts, that she was a very strict Quaker and that protestants at that time, in her region, looked upon Catholics with feelings akin to horror. Her Quakerism would lead her to speak of coats of arms, with some hesitation, as mere vanities, and the fact that her not remote ancestors were catholic as something at least nor creditable. The circumstances surrounding the family absolutely forbid the idea that the "tradition" was not a tradition but a fabrication. The simplicity of their lives and the almost certainty that they had no historical knowledge of the O'Carrolls of Kings County, leads me to think that the tradition was genuine and ought to be relied on. The statement that grandfather was a cousin of Charles Carroll of Carrollton, corresponds exactly with the statement of Mrs Ellen Forsyth, daughter of Thos (John or Joshua?) Dobbin and Elizabeth Carroll (of whom you [J H Carroll] had some account from Mr Leonard Dobbin [of Dobbin, Ogilvie & Co, Hibernia Buildings, King Street, Cork - letter dated 1 June 1881]) and granddaughter of Clotworthy (or Clatworthy) Carroll. In my young days I knew Mrs Forsyth's Quaker mother the latter then nearly 90 years of age, and the mother talked incessantly about the Carrolls of Ireland, but I paid little attention. She was really a connecting link, but young fellows are apt to be bored with incidents about their ancestors, so I asked no questions, made no notes and remember but little. But some ten years ago I wrote to Mrs Forsyth, then at Chicago, when she was about 83 years of age. She said her father moved to this country when he was eleven years old, and that it was "understood" that my grandfather Edward Carroll was a cousin of Bishop Carroll of Baltimore. Bishop Carroll, afterwards Archbishop, was a first cousin of Charles Carroll, they being grandsons of the original Daniel Carroll, who came to Maryland. If there was a cousinship between Edward and Charles Carroll, it could not have been nearer than 2nd, but probably was 2nd or 3rd. Edward Carroll was ten years younger than Charles, and probably one remove further from the common ancestor.
Robt. W. Carroll